The Cruel Prince

Join hosts Nikki and Sam with a special guest, a reader friend, to chat about how much we love Jude and Cardan in the beloved first installment of The Folk of the Air series 

💬 Read the book? Tell us what you thought—did we miss something, or totally nail it? Drop a comment!

📲 Follow along on IG: @readersoftwocitiespodcast
🎧 Listen now on Apple Music & Spotify

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

It's like, do I have to introduce myself? I hate doing icebreakers. I mean, you literally could just tell us like how you got into reading and then what made you get into the book that we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Okay, I'm Britt. I got into reading in fifth grade whenever my teacher we would have like reading time and she would have buckets of books on top of her cabinets, and I just happened to look in there one day because I didn't have anything, and I was looking, and there was two warrior cat books, and I looked at them and I read them and I said, This one sounds good, but this one's number one. And I asked my teacher which one I should read, and she was like, Maybe you should start with book one. I was like, but number two sounds better, and she's like, Yeah, but maybe you should start with book one, and then read like 56 plus warrior cat books, and have over 70 on my bookshelves at home. So that was my first love was Warrior Cats. But now my favorite genre is fantasy, which is how I got into reading the book we're gonna talk about today. Because I read Avatar, love Avatar, and was looking for something to fill the hole, and I came across the book that we're gonna talk about today, and it's one of my favorite series because I love Faye.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

That is so that is so fun because the moment you say fantasy, like my ears are perked, and I was like, Yes, let's go. Also, because Nikki and my reading styles are so vastly different, so it's always like nice to see to have a conversation where you're just like somebody knows a little bit, the other person knows a little bit, and then just like so it's it's really fun that you like fantasy. I got into fantasy obviously through my first big thing was Harry Potter because it was like 12th grade exam, like in India, it's a big deal. So, of course, in the middle of the exam, I read all the seven books. We get time between like different subjects to study, and I chose that exact moment to read like the Order of Phoenix and like all the thickest books you could find. So that's how I got into fantasy, honestly, and then like Divergent was like a bit of I had a face with Divergent, and but after I moved to the US Um and like started working, got a little bit of money to like do responsible stuff. That's when I was like, I'm gonna go and buy books. Lots of fantasy, fictional stories. So that's how I also came across the book that we're talking about today. I read it so fast and I didn't remember anything. And Nikki's like, I was like, can we do that again? Because I need to read it again. I wanted to because I read it so fast I couldn't enjoy it. This time I really enjoyed it again. You've only read it twice, only twice because I just started reading fiction a year and a half, two years back. I'm super new to fiction in general, so I'm like reading fantasy, I'm reading like literary fiction, I'm reading just like whatever I can find that's fun. So I have a lot of a lot on my TBR, but I'm such a fresh reader that I like Nikki's like, oh, you have to know this. This came out 10 years ago, and I'm like making notes. I was like, what, what? Next one? Yeah. So like I'm still like learning the genres and the book worlds and stuff, so it's pretty new to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I get that. I'm a mood reader, so even if somebody's like you should read this, but with the book we're gonna talk about today, I read that book super fast right when it came out, and I had to wait a year until the second one came out, and I read that one right away, and I had to wait a year for the next one to come out, and I was like, These books are ending on the biggest cliffhangers I've ever read. I need the next one now. So I read a lot of fanfiction to uh fill the gap. Sounds about right.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah. I read this book, I think it came out right when we were graduating high school, so 2018 or something. And I started it, I got to a certain point, and I was like, I can't read this anymore, I didn't really like it. My sister read it and she she liked it, but then she started reading the second one and didn't really like it, so she stopped. And then when we were like, Oh, we're gonna do this for this episode, I started reading it again, and I think I stopped it a lot earlier than I had stopped it when I first read it. So, guys, I did not finish this book, but are we surprised at this point? No, we aren't.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

You didn't get to the best part because trust, it was at a point to where I was like, is this really it? And then something happens, and then it just whooshed from there.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Also, before we like move forward about talking about the book, so I'm reading the second book right now because last year when I said I I think I read the second book half, but then I switched to something else. So now I am reading the second book. Can you please make sure? Try your best, try your best to like only talk about the first book because the twists are like really shocking.

unknown 4:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

I don't wanna like I don't wanna like get a spoiler. Nikki doesn't care because she's like spoiler up. But I am so like I like to be immersed and like I like to be shocked and surprised. I do too.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I get it. I will try, I will try not to spoil anything. I see Fourth Wing on the back of your bookshelf, and I spoiled something for a friend literally five pages before it happened. But I remember I read this book series that we're about to talk about. I've read all three books, I think three times now, three or four, probably I think there's three. So I can keep them separate because the second one is my favorite, so I know exactly what happens in that one. Love the last half of the first one. The third one is dead.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Did you read the um the dude's perspective? Also, when can we reveal the book, Nikkei? I really don't know. When can we reveal the book?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I feel like I feel like we've just k kept the suspense going.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I like this. We'll keep it in suspense. But is the one that you're talking about the love interest is little book or a different side character's two books?

SPEAKER_03 5:43

No, the I only cared about I only cared about him, honestly. I don't care about anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Word. No, I have read it. I read it in college. I remember reading it. I think I read it in one sitting because it was that short that I read it, I think, in one sitting because there's a lot of like illustrations in it. So it was a fast read. But then the second this side character has two books that take place after this series by like 10 years, I think. Mm-hmm. I think that's how much how much time's passed, and then I won't say any more, but there's gonna be more in the world, and that sucks.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Is it about the kid? Yes, okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

And also, before we continue, I have something that's perfect. For a little spoiler for what we're gonna be talking about today.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

I want that! I want it! I want hers really bad, but I can't find it. For audio listeners, she held up a Funko pop of one of the characters from of the meme.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Not one of the characters, Nikki. It's the Cardin. It's it's the character. The character.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Alright. We're talking about Cardin and View. She's like, and spoiler, here we go. But before we prep like continue further, this will have spoilers of book one. So if you haven't read it or if you don't care about spoilers, you know what to do. So we're gonna be talking about The Cruel Prince. I feel like you guys have someone someone listening probably is like, yeah, I figured that by how much or at least a little bit from what we've uh talked about. But to me, it feels like there's no way this book has come out in 2018 just because it feels still like pertinent to now because people are still reading it. And whereas like other books that have come out in that era, people aren't really talking about. So I'm just interested as to like how it blew up later than back then, or like people are still discussing it.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I think it's the resurgence of like people really getting into Avatar and wanting more of it. And this is one of the books that's like heavily like promoted of if you like Avatar, you're like this. When they're honestly, as someone who's read Avatar like seven times the entire series, they're vastly different in the sense that the Fey in the two worlds are very different, and one is now it's catered as an adult literature, where the other one is very YA. Even rereading it again, I'm like, yeah, it's it's still pretty YA. Not that that's a bad thing in the slightest, but it is vastly different from the YA of the first three books that Akitar were at that time. Because now all the books are adult, but at the time the first four Akatar books were also considered YA. And I'm like, I don't think these are the same level of YA that you guys think they are.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

That's interesting because I think, yeah, uh, this is something that we talk about a lot in I, Nikki and me, Nikki and I. Me and Nikki and I. No, Nikki and I.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Because I learned that because if the sentence can stand alone with I, then it's something in I. But if it can't stand alone with I, then it's me. Grammar lesson that middle school English still stuck in my head.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

This podcast is like a little English lesson for me too, because like Nikki's English is so much better than mine with like the nuances and stuff, and she's like, Sam, honey, first person means this. She doesn't say she doesn't tell me that sweetly, she's like, Sam, third person. Did this say they or did this say I? Sorry, I screamed. But she was like, Sam, so I'm learning scramble lesson. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

I didn't know the difference between first and third person really when people were talking about it until I just read a fanfic and it was happened to be in first person. I was like, ew, what is this? And I'm like, oh now I see why people hate certain books.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

There is so much hate for third person though, especially in fantasy. And I'm like, why would you want to read it in first person fantasy? It's not you doing it, it's somebody completely different doing it. And I was like, there's certain pla like certain books and genres definitely I feel like could be in first person, but there are some that just need to stay third person. I'm like, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Third person gets so much hate. I don't know why. I love third person. I hate being first person. I don't want to imagine myself in this scenario. I'll just be in the background watching.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

Exactly. I honestly don't care because I didn't know the difference. So I can't really like I just like read. So I haven't been but now I think I notice it more. Like I'm able to tell and I notice more like sorry, the thing that I was saying is like Nikki and I talk a lot about like if you like this, like the all the book talk trends. While there's so much to appreciate about a community that pushes reading and pushes like, you know, giving opportunities to like readers and writers and so much, but there's also like things like these where you can it's really misguiding or misleading because I have seen videos of oh, if you like fourth wing, read these, these, these, and I bought a few of those, and I'm like, are you like you know, do you like not? Are you not a comprehensive reader who understands like this is nothing like this book? Did you not realize that? Just because there's dragons doesn't mean it's like if you liked fourth wing, you'll like it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Right, because it's because I feel like fourth wing it's not exactly the dragons that people are liking versus other books people are recommending are recommending it because of dragons. And I'm like, I don't think that's why people like Fourth Wing the way they like Fourth Wing is very different because like Avatar people like it because of the romance and what they think is the Fae, but like Fey is like mischievous and like low-key evil and like kind of bad, which is how the Cruel Prince writes the Fey. So I'm like, you might like the Avatar because of the Fey and like the Fairies, but it's very different. They're still both really good, and I did like both because I like Fey, but like they're not the same because you like the Fey.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Have you read The Mortal Instruments yet?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

No, my mom bought me the first book because she saw that it said City of Bones, and she was like, Oh, you're an anthropologist, you like bones, you'll like this book. I said, Bom, that's not what that series is about, but I haven't read it. I did watch the Shadow Hunters TV show. I think I watched like two or three I don't know how many seasons there were, but I watched a few. Okay, I think I watched two or three seasons, and I was like, I'm done with this.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, I watched the show because there were a couple actors in there that I knew from previous things. So I was like, I'll watch it for them. And I stayed for literally one couple till the end, and then I didn't care about it anymore. Was it Alec and Yeah, Magnus and Alec? Magnus, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I stayed for them and only them, and I was like, I can't do anything else anymore. I tried, or like I wanted to read those, but again, it was a fanfic originally, and the premise of the fanfic, I was like, that's gross. No thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I don't want to read them just because there's what like nine books, and the last series of like three, so the last trilogy in that series is like a thousand pages each book. I'm like, I got other stuff to read, bro. I don't I don't want to be locked down.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah, that's a lot of pages for a book. But back to the cruel prints, because that's what we're here for today. If you had to summarize it or pitch it to someone to read, what would you say? Okay, I would say girl, her parents get killed right in front of her by a fairy.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Not the kind you're thinking. Imagine a big green, imagine a big green ogre with huge teeth who's a cannibal, loves killing, loves it. Her parents get killed right in front of her at the age of I think seven, right in front of her like that. And then he takes her, her twin human sister, and her older half fee, half-human sister, back to the fairy world, and he raises the three of them as his own. The older half fee is actually his own, but the other two definitely not. But he takes them back, and she the twin and her get raised like the Fey, even though they're always ridiculed because they're human and they're seen as lesser because the Fey are like ew, disgusting. And so the one sister tries to blend in by, you know, adapting and being like, I'll be a good housewife for the Fey, blah blah blah. Where the main character, Jude, love Jude. She wants to prove herself by being a badass, like her adoptive father. And so she's trying to work her way into the court because she's like, I can prove myself if I'm in the court. And then a bunch of stuff happens at the court, and then she ends up kind of being a spy and a figurehead that's running around in the background trying to get things in motion, and there's more stuff, but I don't want to kind of spoil it, so I'm not gonna that's where I'm in the pitch. That wasn't good. But she becomes a badass human because she becomes a figurehead in the fate world that nobody expects, but she's undercover. That's a good pitch, actually.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

That was so refreshing, also, because when I pitch something, I just talk for half an hour and just like blabber and spoil everything, and I'm just like, I love this book so much a 15 times, and doesn't actually tell me why she loves the book except for the fact that she loves the book.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah, see, I can tell you I love the book because I love how Jude, even though she's seen as lesser the entire series, like even in the third book, still seen as lesser, she proves that she is a bad ass and she don't need no fairy magic for it. She can do it by herself.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

You can totally cuss on this, by the way. You don't have to. You can absolutely. So then obviously you said that you really like Jude as a character, but is she your favorite character? If so, why? And then Sam, you can also pitch in.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

No, so Cardin is my favorite character because he's a little pathetic simp, and I love him. That man won't raise a finger, but then the second somebody messes with Jude, he's like, hey, don't you? No, you can go ahead and read the first book.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

I've read the first book, yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

But he he doesn't do anything in the first book yet. Well, he does something for to Locke because Locke is messing with Jude's emotions, and he's like, better fucking stop. So that happens in the first book. That happens in the first book. Carden's my favorite because he's a pathetic loser and I love it. But then Jude is like right there. Like you can't have one without the other. While Carden is my favorite, I also love Jude.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Yeah, I think for me also it's one of those instances where I can't love without the other. I can't love one without the other. So while I really, really admire Jude, but when you read the book, you kind of see how similar they are. They are like from two different worlds, grew up diff very differently. Carden was never loved. Jude was like loved in in its own like messy way. But they're so they have they both have like this dry sense of humor that they understand, they just have like the similar I just said like dry humor. Um there are instances where after Jude watches Carden getting like beaten up by his stupid elder brother. I have underlined stuff and made notes. I'll I'm an annotator. You see, Jude constantly thinking in each scenario, what would Carden say, or how he would react? Oh, Carden must have thought me a fool, or he must have done this, he would have done that. And then even Carden is like, he he's just like so so pathetically like powerless when it comes to her. This literally my favorite when he kind of gets a hold of him, and then she's like, You're my prisoner or whatever. And she's like, Why do you hate me? Remember that whole scene where she's like, But why do you hate me? And and and the thing with fairies is like they can't lie. So there's just this like few lines of what Carden says, and I was like, No, the quote off the top of my head, he says, I hate you because I think of you often.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Think of you?

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Often, period.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

I love it. So he's so down bad. He's so down bad. And then I think the beautiful part is you get such a barely any glimpse of Carden in the first book, but you still know how how pathetically, like, you know, he's just like down bad.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yes, there's even a scene later where they're at a party and everybody's dressed up because it's like a royal party, obviously. Trying to met they have such a great banter, like just a dry humor. I love it. But he's like, Have I told you how awful you look? And she's like, No, tell me. And he's like, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Where are these people in real life? That's like weird fantasy. That is exactly, exactly. Is there a character that frustrated you or bothered you? Pan is there.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Pan wait for this question. Her twin sister, Erin, okay is is okay, for people with sensitive ears. I'm about to say it. Her sister is a fucking bitch. Hate her sister so much, so so much. Everyone's like, oh my god, she gets better. There's like a novella in between, I think, the first and second book that is from Taryn's point of view, and everyone's like, Oh, after I read that, I forgive her. I'm like, bruh, I read that, she's still a bitch, still hate her.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

I don't even want to read what she thinks. Like, I don't want even wanna know. I don't want to save it.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

It was an audiobook, and I think it was three hours. And when I was doing my reread, I was like, Do I want to read listen to that? Because I put it on two time speed. I'm like, I can get that done in like an hour and a half. I'm like, I can't listen to her talk that long.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

I hate her so much. What about her? Was it that just like irked you guys?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

She is just like, Woe is me. Oh my god, dude, you don't get it. Our life is terrible. And Jude's like, I know. I had an ogre bite off my finger when we were young. I know because you sit there and you act pretty and I get bullied. She's like, Don't talk to me about the hardships. And Jude, and Terrence just like, but we just it's so hard being me. Shut up. Your twin sister is literally going through the same stuff, even not worse. So just shut up. Just sit in your pretty dress and just sit there in the corner. Shut up.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

What I really, really disliked is like, she's like, Oh, but if you like keep your head down, they'll not bully you. And Jude is like, I'm trying to stand up for us. Can you at least like if you're not helping me, can you at least like not on their side?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

You know? Right. And then instead she's just like, Oh, I'm not on their side. I'm just gonna stay neutral while also keeping every secret for them for the fave that she can. She's like, I won't tell Jude because you know, then it's better for me. Bitch, selfish much.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Also, I did not see that betrayal coming from Taryn. Locke and Taryn.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

I didn't. The first time I read that, I was like, obviously, now I'm more and more suspicious as I see Taryn, like every time Locke and Jude have an interaction, she's like, Watch yourself.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

When I was rereading, I would I because this time I paid more attention. I read slower, so I paid more attention to every time, like it is like you get hints of it about the story. Yeah, I cannot see I did not see that coming.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

No, and the first time I read it, too, because you don't see everything Carden does for Jude secretly while Locke is trying to flirt with her. So the first time around, I was like, oh my god, like Loc's great. I hope she ends up with Loc. Like Carden, love him, but also hope she's with Locke. Obviously, now three times around, I'm like, this motherfucker is such a bastard. And Cardi's just trying to help. Like, oh my gosh. Like when she gets poisoned and he's like, let me cut myself so you can or he pricks Jude's finger so she can drink the iron in her blood, but he does it in a way that everyone's like doesn't notice, but he does it in a way it's sly.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

So they're like, Oh, he's still on our side, but really he's trying to help her because you know what got me is just like pages of Jude written, and like I don't know, don't tell me anything because I have not read book two and three and his point of view yet. But when I saw that, I was like, damn. So that's the beauty of like this book is you never get to know Carden's point of view, but his actions speak for themselves, and without reading a person's point of view, you just like know how I don't know. There's so little of Carden in the first book, it's just all about Ju, Ju, Ju, like her getting bullied, her getting this, but you still somehow come out loving Cardin so much.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

You do, because she's so protective of her when she's with Locke, even though she herself doesn't know, like she'll overhear him saying things to Locke or like Cardin's group of friends will. Like to say things, and she's like, I'm suspicious because Cardi knows Locke's playing both sisters, and he's like, Stop messing with dude, or you're gonna feel my fury. And Locke's like, I don't know, she's talking about Rachel, Richill, and Jute's like, Why would Carden care this much? I don't understand, and then you get to the end and you realize why Carden cares.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I can't wait to read.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So you guys were talking about Carden a lot and how much you love him, but I've seen on like Instagram reels and TikToks and stuff of people hating Cardin, and everyone was like, Yeah, well, the title is called The Cruel Prince. Like, what do you think? But what do you say? Is he the villain, the anti-hero, or do you think there's something else with who Carden is?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

He is the definition of morally gray. Cause he's the cruel prince. It's Faye. Faye aren't supposed to be nice. So there's scenes of him like treating other like so he's a prince, so he's treating their like subjects kind of bad, like he rips off the wing of one fairy boy just because he can. There's other scenes where he's just a dick to certain people just because he can. He's like, I'm a prince, I might not be the favorite prince, and that's why he lashes out a lot, is because he's the last son, that his own father doesn't like him, none of his siblings like him, his mother's not in the picture, so he's like, I'm just gonna be an asshole because I can, and nobody can say anything because I'm a prince. So he is the definition of morally gray because he does that, but then he sees his love is getting messed with, and he's like, Don't touch her, don't mess with her, like, don't mess with what's mine. So he's morally gray because he hates everybody except the person he cares about, and we But just to add to that, you also see glimpses of Cardi.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

He's kind of like trained to be cruel almost, like he did not grow up with like even an ounce of love. So he's like, what other thing is there in the world other than cruelty? But you also see him making his own choices is his refusal to kill anyone, his refusal to get good at swordsmanship because he's like, I am never going to use it on anyone. Like, I'm never going to take a life, I'm not a killer. Him, I don't know, even when his elder brother is like going crazy, there's like he's still kind of he's like, he's the only one that took me in, so I can't outright hate him. Even though he like tortured him so much growing up. So he does have like this glimpses of and that's what I love about fantasy is like you learn to not take things at face value and think deeper about how people actually are, even though they're mystic like mythical, mystical characters. You're like, that's so incredibly human. Like you were hurt, and then you like bite back, but you like are you really a bad person if you didn't know any other way? The problem is when you know you find something good and you're still being a bad person. That's kind of my problem is uh with characters, is like you had this chance to change yourself and you didn't. Like, Locke. He's just like Taryn, Taryn, she's just like a such a stupid little girl. I'm like, you had so many chances to like learn and change and you know, and then you just don't because it's convenient for you to stay the way you are. That's why I feel like Cardin doesn't fall in the category of like good or bad, because he's just like trying his best in this capacity, and when he does get a chance, when he becomes what he does, he's like, I actually do like you know, I don't always hate it. I don't always hate people. He's he's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, you even see one of his friends, Nikesia, she's from the undersea, so like the ocean, she's like the sea princess. They were supposed to get married, she was betrot they were betrothed to each other, and then she backstabbed Carden to go with Locke, who then backstabbed her to go with Jude and Tarin Taryn. And Carden's like, even though you broke my heart, I'll still watch out for you, Nikesha, because like my feelings were sincere. We were supposed to be together, I did get feelings for you, and so I will always care for you, but like also don't touch Jude.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

So we're gonna kind of transition a little bit into the world in Curl Prince and not just the characters, but we've talked about the Fey quite a lot. Is there anything about the Fae specifically, whether it's like the traits of them, the world that Holly built that kind of stood out to you?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I like because it was my first because this was my second introduction to Fey, my first being Avatar. And so, like between Avatar and Cruel Prince, I felt found out that the Fey are supposed to be like evil tricksters who like can't lie when in Avatar they're lying all over the place. So I liked that this iteration actually showed them they can't lie. There are certain things that they can't do. Things like iron and salt actually does something, versus in Avatar, they're seasoning their stuff with salt all the time and nothing ever happens. So I like that they were how they're supposed to be. They're evil, they're cool, you're not really supposed to like them because they're tricking you. They love tricking humans, and it's it was cool to see. And then also she has like different iterations of Faith, so they're not all beautiful with pointed ears. Like one of the members, I also love the roach. I love Jude's little gang of spies. I love the roach, I love the bomb, but the roach is like an ugly, ugly little green thing with like a hooked nose, and so it's like, yeah, you have Cartoon who's gorgeous, but then you also have Faye who are hideous, but you're it's just new versus an act where everybody looks gorgeous.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

I also, in fact, like that very fact that I forgot, wait, this happens sometimes, I forgot about it. That they can't lie. So I really that became a very interesting thing because they can't lie, but they can manipulate you by saying words in a way that could be so. When I was reading, I was like, what does he mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Like what what did that mean? But also when there's like nuances of like being vulnerable or anything or something, they can't lie. So whatever they are saying in that moment is just so true. So I love that it's um that honesty factor is there. I really like that part. The thing about all the Fei being different actually confuse me a little bit. Who looks like what because the description was there, but you I have like an elevated heart rate when I'm reading the Cruel Prince series. So I don't really like I'm not able to focus on one thing. So descriptions I don't so I don't really know how each person, like each fee, kind of looks whose eyes are green, whose nose is orange, like something. So I just like imagine them all to be like green or like pointed ears or just like normal humans, I guess. I just like imagine them to be like humans and pointed ears because there is because I can't remember who looks like what. I just know Carmen's really pretty and that Jude is really feisty, and I imagine like her dad being like this like tall, like you know, like very scary person. Oriana's like this gorgeous, like queen-like, you know. So I have like these mental images, but I don't think that's what the author um intended to portray. So I think I've made peace with the thing of like not understanding who looks like what.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

There's different factions that come into play too because the coronations is happening, so you know they have all these different factions and they're all described as looking different, and you're just kinda like, what is what is what who's this? But I also like that she because Holly's written Faye for a while, that this is not her first Faye series, and she's has little like cameos of her past series, which I've never read any of them, but I think it's cool that she's able to bring them into this book series too, and be like, Oh yeah, and you remember this prince of this like one book I wrote 20 years ago? Yeah, there he is, he's at the banquet, and you're like, that's cool for anyone who has read her other books. But I also like with the lying and that they can't lie, is that they're forced in a way to say, like you said, like manipulate, but they're forced in a way to say things to where they're not in h- They I mean it's the truth, but they've worded it that you're like, What do you mean by that? And even Jude's like, I know you can't lie, but I don't know what you're what you mean when you say those words, but I know you're not lying, so something in there is truthful. So I think that's cool too that you can read it because you're also kind of like, What do they mean by that? Like, there's always a double meaning because you know it's the truth, but also they're saying it in a way that's meant to be like mean, degrading, or a backhanded lie in some way, and they're just like, but it's not. Which is how Jude knows when Cardin actually cares for her because she's like, Well, now why would you say I know you can't lie, so why did you just say that? And she's like, What? So I like that too because it's a different way of writing. Cause you, as the reader too, are kind of like, What did they mean when they said that?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah, you saying, like, they can't lie and they can only manipulate, just makes me think of I haven't read The Mortal Instruments, because like I've said earlier, but by just watching Shadow Hunters with certain Fey members, they can't lie, and like when they go to them and ask for help, they can say things, but like they either manipulate it or whatever. So I'm wondering if because the books kind of came out around the same time, if they all followed the same rules of the Fey world and whatever, and then if Akatar, I have no idea when that one came out, but if she did want to make it separate from the other ones that have the Fey written and was like, I'm gonna do my own thing, or if she hasn't read it and she was like, I'm gonna do whatever I think is right and completely change it. But just seeing how like those two, and then Light Lark was also very similar to The Cruel Prince in just plot and in terms of like the Fey and everything.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And I know you have gripes with that book, but yeah, say it with Divergent, like Sam was saying earlier, how she liked Divergent, did not like that series at all. First book was good, second book loved, third book I stopped halfway and wanted to burn it. I hated that book so much. The movies god awful. First one, great. What was happening in two and three?

SPEAKER_00 31:50

I think we can finish two. I watched half of it and I was like, I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

I feel like you kept saying, and then you kept like, I was like, I kept agreeing, disagreeing and agreeing and disagreeing and agreeing because like that's the nuances of being a Divergent fan. Is like I hate the Divergent series, but I love Diversion. The movies were so bad, but the first one was so good. So like that kind of like almost all the Divergent fans have this vocabulary is like I wouldn't as far I I wouldn't go as far as like hate the author, like a lot of people do. I'm like, she's just like he was in her 20s, like, can you calm down? But I did not like the movies at all. And I did not so in my mind, for the longest time, Divergent has existed as a standalone book and one movie, and they the book ends when they're on the train, they're like happily ever after.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Works for me. That's how I think of How to Train Her Dragon, because the third one crushes my soul. I'm like, oh, the second one's where it stopped. There's no third movie, don't know about her. There's only two in the whole franchise. As it should be that way.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Is there anything about the world that pulls you into it and is like, I could totally see this being a real thing, or is it like there's no way that this any of this is possible?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I think it's like obviously it's fantasy, so it's like not the most realistic thing, but I think it's cool how it starts off in the mortal world. Like the book literally starts off with Jude and her sisters in the living room, like eating fish sticks and watching TV. And then there's throughout the entire series, like one, two, and three, they're talking about the mortal world world and like how they fly across the ocean and like go through like a magic mist, and oop, they're in like New York or Washington or whatever, and you're so it's like there's always like little like plot hole like holes into the mortal world, so it's like, oh, you think this is fake, but oop, they're at the mall shopping for bras, right? And then they come back to the fairy world and they're like killing each other, and then oop, gotta go to the mortal world because my sister has a coffee date. Like, okay, so maybe there are pockets of like the fae world in and out that we don't know about.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

I think for me, the writing is so immersive that I it's almost unsettling sometimes because I'll be reading it on the train to work and then I'm like, Where am I? What time is it? How long has it been? So the writing I think is very, very immersive, it's very simple, at the same time, it's very like fancy writing. It pulls you in. It has happened to me throughout the Cruel Princess. Like, I am I'm in the co I'm at the co I'm getting off at like World Trade Center, you know? So um it's kind of the writing is brilliant in that sense. The only thing that I again have not been able to understand is if you look at the map, okay? If you look at the map, Nikki, just for your context, it shows like a few people's places, like where map where Jude lives, where Carden lives, where like Locke lives. So I can't imagine where the other people are, or like where the markets are, where you're getting food from, like where do the servants live. So I think the world building is a little incomplete in the sense of I can't see the everyday mechanisms of it outside Jude's house. Like in her house, I know what's happening, or at Hollow Hall, I know what's happening, but I can't see this world, like how is this world operating? Is what I can't imagine. That could just be like my lack of imagination because I know where the woods are at the palaces, but I'm like, but where is the space, or like where are the other people?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Like, where is the I'm in the exact same boat because even though I've read it so many times, the map trips me up because everything looks so close together. And even in the book, she's like, Oh, I walked from like Hollow Hall to the to the king to the castle. And I'm like, I know you guys don't have cars and you don't have like but I'm like, how did that t you it make it sounds like it's like a 20-minute walk max, and I'm like, how close is everything together? Because like the market, I think she goes to a market at least in the second book. I don't know about the first one, and it's I think it's on like a separate island because it's like all of Elfheim is like three islands, and so like Nekesia's people all live under the ocean. So there, that's one faction settled, but then everyone else, she's like, I walked to Locke, we Locke walked me home from his house to my house. I'm like, I know you guys aren't in the neighborhood, so like how what? Yeah, I'm like the she even like the map doesn't clear it up because the map makes everything seem close together, but then she also writes it to where everything seems like it's really close together. I'm like, are you guys all living on top of each other? Like, there has to be some semblance of space because like Manic lives in like a manor with stables, so that place has to have some kind of property. The castle of Elfheim is like in a huge mountain, but I'm picturing just like a little pile of dirt with one window because Jude climbs through a window, so there's one window. Like I climb in, and then it's like a whole mass of tunnels underneath.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

But I'm like, And the thing is, like, where Garden lives, Hollow Hall, it's so funny to say hollow hall. It's right next to where Jude lives. And I'm like, How have we not grown up together? How have you like not have interactions where he literally lives next door? Mickey, he's like, you come out and there's there's there's where Garden lives.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

And I'm like, how how? I know, like, I'm picturing Maddox's estate because it's an estate, which means there's land. I'm picturing like vast amounts of field, but then also she could probably see Hollow Hall from like her window. It's like, how far the spatial awareness in this book doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

All of this love story could have been a you belong with me music video. You know, like she's like, You're killing someone tonight? He's like, no, I'm gonna be at the palace for a ball. Right. I don't know. So I have like a spatial, spatial, spatial, spatial, spatial, spatial, yeah. Um, I can't understand where what is because Jude is walking everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

And then she's walking everywhere, but then it'll take like a magic giant toad also places. And I'm like, so are you can you walk there or do you have to take some form transportation? Like why a toad?

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Like, I didn't I can't imagine Jude like hopping like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I know. I hate I have an amphibian phobia, but um also when she talks about giant toads, I'm like, ew, take a horse. I know you have horses because Matic has a stable, but the stable, get this, houses the giant toads. I'm like, ew.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

And she's like dragging a dead body, and and like you know, and I'm like, where are people? Like, are there there's nobody look so it feel it almost the reading the book almost feels like there's like these three families living on that island and everybody's fighting each other. Apart from that, everything is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yes, apart from the spiritual awareness of where everybody in Alfheim is, no notes.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah, but doesn't that make it frustrating when you're like reading and you just don't understand where things are and how long it takes you like for characters to get there? Doesn't it take you out of the the book?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Not really, because I just kind of gloss over it because I'm shim like she's walking from Hollow Hall to the palace. Okay, that takes some amount of time. She even says like the sun's gone down or whatever, so you're like, okay, however much time that is, you're like, chill. So luckily the Fey World works in the dark, like at night, like they're nocturnal creatures, so there really isn't like oh the sun like rises, oh it's noon, or whatever. So you're kinda just like chill, cool. Yep. She walked from here to here. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

That's the other thing that threw me off, is like the daytime, the cycle when they wake up and they sleep. I have read the first book twice. I s it still takes me a minute to understand, oh, afternoon sleep, or is like what is what? But it doesn't take you out of the book because like again, I could be wrong, but I just feel like the characters and the atmosphere is so charged all the time. You don't really care how you're getting out, like just get to the other thing and tell me what's happening. I was just like, I don't care about who's sitting in what woods, or like, like, how are you flying to the humotload? I was like, I don't care, just tell me what's happening because I feel what Jude feels when I'm reading. Like, I feel the fear and I feel like the anxious, I feel the nerves. So I don't really care about anything else, honestly. Is how I feel.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I feel Jude's pain whenever she gets like beaten to a pulp, like when she had to stab her hand. This is my my third time reading it, and when she stabbed her hand this time, I was just like, I like cringed up. I was like, ow, because she like had to go in between her bones, and as a person who knows the bones, I'm like, ouch. And then she had to rip it out, and I was like, Oh my god. That doesn't sound fun. She's a badass though, because she sucks it up and she deals with it. Love good for her. She doesn't even take any medicine for it either because she's just like, Well, I'll just suffer. And then the person who tells her to stab her hand tells her to go bandage it up basically afterwards, and she's like, I don't need a bandage, I'm fine. Meanwhile, she's in bed, like blood loss.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

She's like, Won't stop bleeding. Yeah, we should have done something about that.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, it's almost almost like he told you to go put a bandage on it, and you go, I don't need that, I'm tougher than that. Which pop off, Queen.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

But like, also throughout the book, you're just like, This girl, like, she keeps getting in like deeper shit, and you are like there for her, but you're also like tired of like how much of this are you gonna take? Where is this going? That's why I'm like, I wanna read the second book and third book because I'm like, I just want her to be done with her misery, you know what I mean? I just need her to get to the happy ending, which I'm sure there is, I hope there is.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Uh, but I'm just like, what is happening? Why it's too much pain. Is there anything about the political dynamics or like court stuff that drew you in, or were you just like, and that's happening, moving on?

SPEAKER_01 41:14

No, actually, the court the political side is actually what drew me in so much so that I keep I think I like like political intrigue books because of this series, because the nuances that happened at the end of the ser like the end of the first book of like I'm gonna kill all these people so that I can be king, but also we have a third backup that nobody knows about so that way the second person then can be king, and you're just like, What is happening? And there's so many like court secrets and people keeping stuff from people, and you're just like, What's going on? And like it gets more so even in the second book, where there's just like court secrets, and like, oh, we're not gonna tell you this because we're trying to be in charge, and then she's like, But that's the king, and he needs to be in charge, but I need to know because I'm the figurehead behind him, and they're like, But you're immortal, so we're not gonna tell you. So it's just like her trying to be sneaky with her spies of like finding out information because nobody wants to tell her because she's human, and they're like, We're not gonna tell you. So she has gained the trust of her spies, and she's like, You go find out you because I need to know these things, because I need to control these things, and so actually the political side of it is actually really what drew me in, because it's just so many that's what makes the series is the court politics. Like, you don't have the cruel prince without that, because then the next book is called The Wicked King, so you're like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

The thing is, I love how how you think because I think it's absolutely the same thing for me. I tend to re- I tend to want more of like relationships and human side and like more of the love romance side. I'm a softie through and through. So I love but the cruel press was such a surprise, even for me. I surprised myself because I was so I'm so invested in the court politics. Which I thought I because in Fourth Wing, there is so much happening all the time. I was like, ah whatever, like dragon, fight, okay, fight. Like, you know? It's like it gets so much after a point. So I thought maybe I don't like political stuff, like too much of it. But the cruel princess just majorly, it's Judas just like all entwined in the politics. Cardinal is just all in the politics, but somehow the writer did such a beautiful job with the characters along with the plot, is you are invested in everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

I agree fully because I think that's why I didn't like the fourth wing. I stopped after the second book, is just because there's so much going on that you're just like, bro, but like Cro Prince, even though there's so many different factions and so much going on behind the scenes, it's still simplified, but in a good way that you're never really confused on what's happening versus the fourth wing, they're like, Oh, we have this lore, this lore, this lore, this, and you're like, chill. Crowprince is very streamlined, like, we have this problem, and these are the what's happening, and you're like, Okay, I can keep this straight. And it's I like that because I also was in it for the romance because Aguatar was big in the romance, so I was like, I'm in it for the romance, and then there was like hardly any. But I'm like, I actually, while it's in the background, great, love it. Not what I'm interested in. I want to know, like, this the plot, the twist that happens in the first book when they're like all the the princes and princesses are being killed because Balkin's like, I'm gonna be king. I'm like, oh shit. And then Jude's like, actually, I'm gonna hide cardin because we have a third option that nobody knows about. So actually, I hold all the cards and you're like, shit.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Now that she's gotten what she's gotten, I was like, oh my god, how is she gonna keep it? How is she gonna keep it? Like who's gonna hurt her? Like what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 44:28

I'm like, Yeah, and like even this reread, like I obviously know how it ends, but this time I was, I don't know, I was like more locked in where she's like, okay, I have the prince in hiding, but I have to go check in with my family first because my dad was the one behind this coup, but also I have to go talk to this person because oh wait, my sister's a backstabbing bitch, so I need to go confront him. And then something else happens, she's like, I have to go over there, and she keeps promising people like just give me a day, just give me a day. Even she even says out loud, she's like, I keep promising a day to like seven different people. She's like, I gotta get all this worked out in a day. So, like, I like that too because you're like stressed with her, you're like, Jude, stop making promises, just fulfill something before you say something else, and she's like running around the chicken with her head cut off, but it's like my god, dude.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Also, it being a fairy world, you're so engaged because all of those things are so incredibly human. Like, Jude wanting to fit in, not by changing herself, not by like being what other people want her to be, just by she's like, just accept me for who I am. Like, I am strong in my own way. Can you like not accept that? And Cardin is like human in his own way because he's like trying to do his best with the cards that he's dealt with. Terrin is like, she's just awful, I can't save her. But Vivi is like, Vivian is like, she's also trying to make the most of this trauma that she's gone through. She's like, I just I'm gonna escape. I don't need this. She's trying to find her own footing, like her own kind of sense of her world. So you see, all of these aspects are very human. And the author did such a beautiful job in weaving that with the fantasy that you're just like there. You live that fear, you live that love, you've you you live that hurt when you see, like when Carden got betrayed by the one person he loves and expects nothing in return from her. When she's the one who betrays him, you feel the shock, you feel like he must have been so hurt because you see him start letting loose, start trusting her, start being playful with her, and finally open up. And she's like, I command you to not move for the next minute. And I was like, What? Why would you do that to him?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

I started speed reading when that happened. I was like, Oh my god, what? What do you mean? Don't move. It's my heart rate.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Okay, I need to like calm down a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

This episode's gonna be Sam. Just I love them so much. I love this book so much, like you did the last one.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Bro, we need to. I love Carden. I love Jude. I don't know what else you want me to say. I love how much Jude loves but Carden loves Jude. I love it too, because Cardin's a pathetic sim, and Jude's just like, ew.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Also, like, here's an example of Carden's like humor, which Jude perfectly matches. She comes back from something, and he's like, This is after like his older brother has like killed everyone, he's threatening him, and they're like going to make their big twist, which Carden doesn't know half of. And he's like, There you are, Carden says, as I take my place beside him, how has the night been going for you? Mine has been full of dull conversations about how my head is going to find itself on a spike. And I laugh out loud at moments like this because he's like, How do you how does one talk like this? And he's like, he's scared for his life, and this is what he's talking, this is how he's talking.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

I also love how nonchalant he is, like to continue that scene, because like she threatens him obviously at knife point, and she's like, You better do what I need you to do, and he's like, Alright, whatever. And then while she's off making all these promises, Carden being Carden is just like, I don't care. And he starts playing poker with the other spies and like drinking. He's like, she comes back and she's like, What the hell? And the roach is like, he pointed us to the king's good wine. What were we supposed to do? And Karden's like, I'm bored sitting in this chair, yeah. What do you want from us? And I'm just like, he's just doesn't care at all while Jude is like trying to make huge political moves on setting up the next king and like putting herself in a reputable spot, and Carden's just like, I'm just trying to drink and win some money.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

I also feel so bad for Jude because she also like feels this almost this support and this companionship with Garden, and then she has to. One thing that I love about Jude is like she she owns the consequences of her actions, she never like runs from them. She knew what she was doing, and she never for one second blamed anyone else for being awful. She's like, I did this, now I must live through it and figure my shit out. And just knowing she doesn't admit it in the first book, but just like how much she in her own way yearns for Garden. She's like always noticing him, always like wanting him to see her, wanting like you know, she like he's so beautiful to her. And then she like and that chance of their friendship and their companionship, she just like fucks it up, and then she's like, But I gotta live with it. I can't blame him, I can't expect him to be nice to me just because I am obsessed with him. She doesn't expect anyone to be nice to her, and she's like, if this is my doing, I'm gonna live it. I don't care what you expect of me, and I'm not going to expect anything from you. So she's like that, and that takes a toll on her, which also she accepts accepts the toll that these things take on her.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

This book was written in first person. Why are you asking us that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Yes, I guess right in front of you. I don't. It says I. Okay, first person. So I know you get like at the beginning we talked about how like fantasy or like we just don't like first person because it's not us living it, it's somebody else living it. So how did you guys react? Or at least you how did you react or feel reading it first person? It's almost like you were in the story.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

It wasn't that bad because I didn't it put myself in the story. I was also when I read this, I was 17. So like I think I was also I think Jude's also 17, or 16, or 17 in the book. So I was like the same age as Jude, so you would have thought it was like the perfect time to insert myself, but I guess because it's fantasy, and I'm like, there's no way I'm wielding a sword and like beating out seven different people to try and win this this battle championship. I'm like, that could never be me. So I guess that helps because I'm like, there's absolutely no way I could be this badass. If anything, I'd probably be Taryn. As much as I hate her if I was in that situation, probably would have been her. I wouldn't have been as bitchy with Locke to my twin sister as Taryn. I would like to preface that, but I probably would not be wielding swords and being this badass, like master manipulator. So I think that was probably what helped is because I was just like so disassociated from it that I'm like, there's no way that could ever be me, ever.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

I love being in people's heads. Like I love if I had I could get one superpower, I wanna read people's minds.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

I literally just said that on Saturday. That's crazy. Oh, you listen to those exact words on Saturday. Love.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

I okay, until Nikki pointed it out, I didn't really consciously understand a book is first person, third person. Honestly, ignorance is bliss. My case, just for reading, is because I don't care what 50th person you're writing in. I love being in the characters' minds because I'm like, that's what she was thinking, and that like I I don't think I could have felt Jude's emotions this well if it wasn't her real time, like, you know, feeling that and me kind of being like, she is so stupid and so smart. I'm just like, girl, where are you going? Like, it's like almost like I am, you know, and inside out there's like these emotions that sit in her head.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

I love being that in like characters' minds. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

I feel like that's how I was too. I was never, never did it cross my mind of oh, I should be reading this like I'm her. Like, no, I was just there, like consciously, like on her shoulder. Stop.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

I am genuinely scared of her dad. I know he's not a real person, he's like a storybook character, but I am scared of him.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I love him. I think he's just a big softie. Even when you get through the whole series, I'm still kind of like, like he was I think he was a good dad for this situation that it was. I was like, he's just a softie.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

No, I like I don't hate him, but I'm just like so like you know how Taryn is like scared of him, yet loves him. Like he's like, you know, he took care of the girls, all this stuff, but I was like, I'm terrified.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

I am terrified of him.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

I'm more scared of Oriana because she seems like a bitch. Like she seems like the cool, icy, like gonna like get at you like subtly versus Maddox is like this big guy with huge teeth who's a cannibal and like loves blood. Like, literally, he's called a red cat because he dips his hat in blood after every battle and he like literally soaks it up. He like smells it, and he's like, But like the mom or the stepmom, she scares me because she's just sitting there in the corner, like, shouldn't have done that. Just like, yes, ma'am. Like, I'm sorry. At least Maddox, you know what you're getting, but then the mom, she's like so icily there that you're just like, shit, did I just do something bad?

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Like, you know, you're in trouble with your parents when they just give you the look in public. She's like that. That's Oriana for sure. Versus Maddox, like, bro, now I'm gonna have to say something when we get home, and you're just like before we wrap things up and go into like recommendations and stuff. I have a quick little would you rather cruel prints edition. So to start things off, would you rather go shopping with Jude or go to a fairy party with Cardin? Fairy party with Cardin. Jude's got no sense of style. Sorry, babe.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

You don't. She she's never been in the mortal world, she don't know what's hip. No things.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

I honestly hate shopping, but I hate parties more, so I can't decide.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

But Cardin's there. Cardinal help you, Cardinal be the social butterfly.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

I know, but I think I'm gonna stick with my girl Jude. Because my fashion sense is just as bad.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

My two wings we couldn't help each other. I need that shopping trip. See, and Cardin gives Jude her coronation dress. So Cardin knows style. Cardin knows what's up. He said, My girl's gonna slay. So Cardin was hit you up good for a party.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Fair, fair, fair. Second one is would you rather take on the high court or hide in the mortal world?

SPEAKER_01 54:29

I'm gonna hide. Those people are too tricky, too smart.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

They trick me somehow, and I'd be like, Yup. And then you spend the rest of your life doing their bidding. Yeah. Yeah, no good, Sam. Scary as shit.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

Like, I'm like, I'm I'm Vivian. I'm like, escapism is like my go-to thing to do. So I'm gonna be hiding in the real world, mortal world, and get my coffee in the day and like, you know, walk around in parks with no death threats. Sounds lovely to me.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

You know, always the coffee. Um, and then the last one is would you rather have Jude as an ally or have Maddox as an ally?

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Um, considering how the series goes and how Jude outsmarts Maddox almost at every point. I think I'll go with Jude because you've seen evidence even throughout all three books that she can outsmart Maddox. So I think I'm gonna go with Jude because I've seen that he fails almost at every point.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

I'm just a book one and I still Jude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

I would say even after just book one, also just Jude, because she freaking poisons Maddox, and because she's been slowly poisoning herself, she outsmarts him because she's like, I don't know which cup he's gonna take. So I'm just gonna poison both. But because I've been training myself, I'll be able to handle it versus he won't be able to, and Maddox himself was like, that was a smart strategy. I won't underestimate you next time. Yeah, I'm gonna go with Jude, because that was a badass moment too.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

I also feel like because Jude's solely inspired by survival instinct, nothing can beat that. No amount of um experience, strategy, strength can ever beat a person who is running for their life.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

And she has it too because like Madic, while he's a military like captain and like knows his fighting, he's still magic. Versus Jude is over here as a mortal, no magic whatsoever, and still has to be able to like outsmart people who have magic, whether they rely on it or not, she has to account for that. The fact that she can outsmart magical people as a human with no magic, like my faith's in her. She knows seven different scenarios, whereas the other people might just know like two because they're like, Oh, I'll just use magic for the rest of it. And she's like, No, I already thought of that, so this is what we're gonna do instead. So, like, she has backup on backups because she has to rely on herself versus everyone else in the series is like I can just grow something with magic and we'll be chill. And she's like, That's what you think.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

Yeah, just like the first book, the way it ends, it was like holy shit. You know, sometimes you start guessing what's gonna happen. But this book, maybe I don't know. I just I couldn't, I absolutely could not anticipate that. Even the lock thing and the coronation thing, either one, I just did not anticipate that. And in a good way, like it's not like it's so off you couldn't have imagined it. Sometimes you know the fantasy books just like throws you like a hundred pages of random shit. It's a twist, twist, twist, twist. It was like there was nothing leading to this. But this one, when I'm rereading, I was like, I see the pieces of the puzzle, but even then, the last twist, I was like, holy shit, I had no idea that could have happened.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

It gets you every time. I've read it three times, and even still I'm on the edge of my seat, like, oh my god, your cops! Like, it's just the ending is that good. Like, the ending, I can't believe I had to wait an entire year for the second book after that.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

It's like my heart breaks the garden though.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

And then last thing is recommending this book. Would you recommend it to others? Why or why not?

SPEAKER_01 57:55

I would recommend it and I would tell them to definitely get further than you, Nikki. I would tell them to push through until I think it actually has a cutoff point of like book two. Like, I think there is an actual like page divider. This is like book one versus book two. Make it to them, because trust me, after that, it's so good. And then the rest of the series keeps up the momentum, like it never like slows down again. I would say book three is kind of slows down a little bit. That's only because I've read it twice now. I think the first time I was like, I have to finish this. But like I would recommend it because it's a very good like story, it's written well, like you don't see certain things happening, but like you have to make it past the boring part. Because I will admit there is a boring part in the middle when she's like, I love lock. Shut up, dude.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

So you have to make it past the j the lock bit, and then it gets I feel like apart from saying I love this book a hundred million times, almost I love Judan Garden, I feel like I've I've found the nuance of how I want to recommend books on the podcast moving forward is would I buy it and have it in my collection, or would you can just like borrow it and audiobook it just to like read it once just for the fun of it? And I feel like I want the cruel prince in my collection of books that kind of makes the reader that I am. 100% recommend The Cruel Prince. Fucking so fucking good. I love this book so much.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

I have every copy of the first part of the series, and then I have the two new special editions that she's putting out, which I'm so happy that she's putting out it for every series or every book, not like Avatar with the like the first one. That's it. There's five books in the series, you just get the one. Cruel Prince is doing it for every book, so I have the first two. The second one's my favorite. I have a tapestry of it in my room. I have a Funko Pop of Cardin. I'm trying to get the Funko of Jude, but I just can't find her. So, like, elusive. So, like, do I like this series? Clearly, I have a whole little shelf on my bookshelf at my house that's dedicated to it. I have like little knick-knacks for it. I have a little like jewelry thing that has cardin on it. I'm like, I love this series. One of my top series because it's just written so well, even for a YA. Like, YA is a bad name, but I think it was written very well.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

That was that was my next thought that was going to be for people who like me want a plot to be romance heavy or like want like love to be like a motivator for the story. You might not see explicitly like romantic scenes, but the story in itself is so well nuanced that you get the glimpse of how much these people probably love each other and that anticipation, that nervousness, that kind of falling for each other through all the shit that's happening. You might not get explicitly, but if you read the book, you will come out having the that like like that uh squealing, giggling kind of a feeling.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

It's like I literally was giggling and kicking my feet at des at my desk rereading the first book. Like, I literally texted my friend who loves the series as much as me, and I was like, Cardi just said this, and I'm trying not to lose it at my desk. Even in book one, you're just like, they're so huge.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:05

Exactly. So I think it's it's definitely worth a read even if you think you are like a romance book reader. This book has enough for you to like enough to feed you that good, like a good couple, like a good power couple. Um and I would just say like it's it's yeah, definitely get get past what like Nikki has gotten to. But she also doesn't like I don't think Nikki likes Faye, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

She doesn't like fantasy, but I don't like Faye fantasy.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

You're missing out, it's where it's at, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

You know, I'll watch it. I will totally watch it. I just can't read it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

If they've made a Cruel Prince movie or TV show, I would lose my. I wanna be dude, I wanna be dude, please let me be dude. I just want to see Cardi in live action, please. Even if it's animated, just would by god please.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

Anime Cardin would be so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Yes, he would eat, I fear, I fear he would, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

So pretty. Like the fan art is so good for the Cruel Prince.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Yes. That is that's another thing too. Yeah, the the fan art for the series is beautiful. Like, there's there's some, but like on the whole, it's like, damn, everybody knows what they're doing with the series.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

And then lastly, how does this compare to other fantasy books you've read? Because I know you talked a little bit, Brett, about like comparing the Fey World to Akatar, but you both have read a lot more fantasy than I have. So how do you how do you see it compare?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

I would say it holds up on its own. It's not like high fantasy, like Fourth Wing is, or even um, what is it, Quicksilver? Not that, it's like real high fantasy. Love Quicksilver as well. But like it holds up on its own, it does a good job. Again, yeah, it's YA, but it it still holds up to the other adult fantasy books that are out there. Not romanticy, because that's a whole different genre of because that's more of the romance than fantasy. But I I would say that it holds its own. It's got a good world building. There's multiple in the series, so it's not even like a well, we tried for one, like the world building continues because there's more people and more courts that come in later. So, like, I would say it holds its own pretty well against all other fantasies. It I mean, I keep coming back to it, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

I think for me, I really liked it, like Brit said. It holds on its own because it's not trying to be tropey, I feel. It's not trying to follow a certain trend of how a fantasy book should be. The world building is good enough to bring you to that world. It's not I wouldn't say it's like the most the most complete world building. It's it's goddess like you have to like kind of make up your own stuff and get along with it. But the world building is such that you are able to immerse in it because the characters are so freaking good and they're all so like they can't chill. So there's always something that's happening, and you don't really care other than the emotions that they make you feel. You don't really care where you are. Um, so I think it holds up in its own like unique. I almost like even I almost like the fact that it's pre-2020 because that's when the publishing probably was not as book talky, as tropey as it is now. So it has its own unique flavor and its unique story that truly keeps you immersed. It's again not romance, not romance heavy, but it's so the romance is so good. How much ever there is that it's absolutely worth your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

I think you make a good point too. It's like it holds its own because it's not trying to be anything but itself. Because, like you said, it came out before Book Talk, where we have seen as readers that Book Talk, while it was at the start, like, oh, try this, try this, try this. Now it's very trendy, it's very tropey, where it's like, we got one bed, we got enemies to lovers, we got this and that. And it's like while Core Prince can be defined by tropes, like it's enemies to lovers, there's political intrigue, Morley Gray, main character, but like there's so much more to it than that versus certain books now on Book Talk where they're like, this is it, and you're like, Well, that is it. There's nothing else in this book other than your tropes that you're trying to sell. Like it came out at a good time because it's not trying to do anything but what it is, it's not trying to appeal to certain like niches of like, oh, it's got this, oh it's got this, and this. Like, no, it's just like here I am. Like, I have all this, but also like there's more to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Yeah, it doesn't box it into certain categories, it just holds on its own. And like, if you don't like what the summary is, then move on, type thing. Whereas I don't like seeing books now where they're like, It's this trope and this trope and this trope. I'm like, okay, I get that, but what else is there? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

They're trying to flash, like flashing, they're like, We got this, but Crowbrand's is like, we got this, but also there's like a story actually with it. And you're like, a story, you say, not just like there's an actual plot in the book that actually makes freaking sense as opposed to just here's a bunch of tropes, so we could check some boxes, like okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:55

I've seen authors in their captions be like, Hey, I'm writing this thing, like. MMC this and like widow MMC or was this like you know heartbroken FMC and like divorce this and like there's a dog there's a beach I'm like but what is the story about like I get that there's a dog and there's like it's a sports romance but what is this what is a story about you know right I feel like book talk nowadays it sells it to where you could just read the list of tropes and that is all you need to know about the book like there's re genuinely not anything else to it other than the tropes versus like the crow prints it may have those but there's also so much political stuff going on in the background that you're like oh my god there's actually more to this because the books are so predictable I genuinely could not anticipate the twist it was actually a twist it wasn't like I know now they're gonna be they're gonna fight and then this chapter they're gonna like kiss for the first time and then this chapter the villain's gonna come and then by this oh last hundred pitches so like you can't in food prints you can't anticipate what's gonna happen that's why you're so involved because I'm like I don't know what's happening I need to know what's happening right so I genuinely enjoyed that anxiety you enjoyed the anxiety right it's not made up it's not like it's not fake it's not a hashtag feels like it's real world yeah when the book ends like genuinely book one and two they end on such cliffhangers that I generally was like what do you mean I have to wait 365 days I was going crazy especially at the ending of book two I was like Holly Black I need this book on my desk right now like not even tomorrow I need it right now can't wait like give me give me your manuscript I wanna read it right now I was like I was like can I email her and just be like please just give me a draft like I don't even care if it's the final I just need to read a chapter like please I need the next one just need to know what happens in the first chapter of the next book just give me like a detailed plot line like just like bullet points please I just need something I was dying and if you had to like share three other series or stories for fantasy what would you like to recommend the the readers just any like it doesn't have to be fade it could be just any fantasy series that you think is really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Sorcery of Thorns it's a standalone there is like a mini novella that she just came out with I think a year or two ago but the main sorcery of thorns came out came out I think in maybe 2019 I will preface I don't remember much of it but I remember I was obsessed and when I found out it was a standalone I was utterly crushed because I was like what do you mean that was it? But it's really good this girl like talks to like books and there's like a whole magic system with the books and her love interest it's it's kind of like Cruel Prince on the romance level if not a little even less but it's still enough that you're like but he is like some kind of magician I believe so he can actually do magic where she just can talk to the books or something something along those lines really good. I want to reread it I recommended it to a friend and she recently read it and loved it. So I'd recommend that one Avatar always because that is my first love that is what got me into fantasy was Avatar because I love Reese with my whole heart and then a third series Quicksilver has been really good. I've enjoyed that one a lot more than Fourth Wing if I'm gonna be honest because Quicksilver's just a lot more meat to the story I feel like than Fourth Wing Fourth Wing really tries to sell like the romance versus Quicksilver's like yeah we got that but there's also like some other stuff too so I think maybe those three for fantasy's a good one Quicksilver I got to meet um what's her name?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

Callie Hart I got to see her at Barnes and Noble for the Brimstone launch and it was like it was it was that's cool. It was it the entire not tell me about this excuse you hey of course I told you about this I got the brimstone version no I know you got brimstone but you didn't tell me that you saw her at the like book signing thing I did uh she's so cool and she's so funny it's also like there's a lot of romance and like adult graphic stuff in there but you also that you get involved with the characters and you're like uh Terrian Swift is my boy I love him so much I also feel like I feel more comfortable having a crush on like people in Quicksilver because like Fourth Wing they're all younger than me and I don't feel comfortable like yes Zadin is so cool but I can't like I love them as a pair. Like I don't have a crush on Zaden because that just feels so inappropriate. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I'm like turning 27 now I'm like I don't have a crush on like he's like in dragon school like I don't think I'm comfortable with that. See and this is why Faye is good because every main man is like 500 years or older so you're like I will never be older than him so I can crush on any of them all right so I'm gonna wrap this up do you want to join us for our outro you should you should you must I insist this is Nikki this is Sam this is Britt and thank you for listening to our podcast today I hope you enjoyed our Jude and Carden fan fan um I completely messed that up didn't I I completely messed that up it's okay we're gonna keep it because I like this outro. Okay and we're just like never gonna stop stop talking about how much we love Jude Jude and Carden and thank you for for backing me up there. Always I they're my favorite shit